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Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

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Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  98% Cack Free on Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:08 am

I can read about the high end spread all day but have never had the pocket book for it. This in a way makes one more appreciative of what "you got" and makes the search even more protracted and intense to get the best possible bargain for the buck.

The best score I ever made was a Decware SE84C in '99. I have never heard a faster amp with such fleshed out imaging in person. The only problem was the two watt per channel speed limit. Using it with Klipsch RB-5's produced a truly advanced sound for the money spent. The Klippers were just efficient enough to sing in a medium sized room. Unfortunately I got the upgrade bug and moved on to speakers that laughed at two watts.

Got to say, though, Deckert's saying "If the first watt sucks why bother" is a truism.



http://www.decware.com/newsite/homepage.html
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I ma done with the tubes...

Post  Eldragon on Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:30 am


I will look to get me a pair of Magnepan planars ($1600) and Behring EP1500($300)...It will be hard to get the sound quality with anything less than $5K with the 'standard' gear and even harder with the tubes and decent speakers that would match low wattage amps.

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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  98% Cack Free on Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:16 am

Are you married to Maggies....just got to have them? I know they can't head bang but you can up a wide sweet spot.
Clue me in a little more.

bounce
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  woodsman on Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:29 pm

i need more power
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  Shirl Girl on Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:13 pm

98% wrote:The best score I ever made was a Decware SE84C in '99. I have never heard a faster amp with such fleshed out imaging in person.

I am a little confused with the above statement. I have heard the term "speed" wantonly used over the years in many a forum and wanted to point out that the signal that an amp passes moves at the speed of light. That's pretty darn fast. Have your other amps passed that signal slower somehow, enough that it was obvious? Don't think so.

Another point. How do you hear an amp? How do you isolate it from the rest of the system? And you realize that an amp can't possibly contribute to imaging, don't you?

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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  98% Cack Free on Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:25 pm

Shirl, I suppose you have only listened to your one boom box. Signal path, for one, makes it possible to sound faster. Small tubes (SV83, EL84) are short pathed as well. The Decware is physically small and connected by each components lead not connecting wire. There is a lot in the way of the electrons flowing through. The less in the way the better.

I had to have mine "slowed" down because it robbed the bass and sizzled on top but imaged like a mother. (Yes, a mother images quite well.)

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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  Shirl Girl on Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:16 am

The length of the signal path could be a mile long and it wouldn't influence the "speed" of the amp one iota. Speed of light remember.

You may have had problems with impedance matching or damping factor. Amps don't have speed.
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  98% Cack Free on Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:14 pm

No, I believe I'm on the right track. Now speakers are an influence, sure. I was using Klipsch Reference speaks which are fast (responsive) speaks. Decent load. With the Decware several people on its fora sent theirs back in to have Steve attach a resistor at the "right" spot. I suppose if you wanted to bi-amp with the two watts on top if would have been fine.

Before the resistor was added the sound reminded me of my buddy's Lowthers. (The speaker that takes forever to break in.)

Basketball
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  Furminator on Sun Jan 15, 2012 3:57 am

I have the cheapest of an Audio way of life...

I donĀ“t buy anything...
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  98% Cack Free on Sun Jan 15, 2012 4:23 am

So are you using your plastic turntable from first grade or what?



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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  zako on Sun Jan 15, 2012 1:56 pm

I LIKE BOSE,,WHY DO PEOPLE MAKE FUN OF ME ??? WHAT IS IT ABOUT BOSE BASHERS,,,

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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  Shirl Girl on Sun Jan 15, 2012 2:02 pm

Bose? Thats ggod shite muthafugga!!!!! The radio rocks man!!!!!
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  98% Cack Free on Sun Jan 15, 2012 5:13 pm

I got a buddy who uses a Bose radio as his living room noise maker. I am so embarrassed for him. He actually thinks it sounds good. He is a typical schmo American. His world revolves around his fishing boat.




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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  Shirl Girl on Sun Jan 15, 2012 10:29 pm

Wats wrong with fishin' there matey? Catfish boogie there mofo!!!!!!! Mutha fucker
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  Shirl Girl on Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:35 pm

98% wrote:No, I believe I'm on the right track. Now speakers are an influence, sure. I was using Klipsch Reference speaks which are fast (responsive) speaks. Decent load. With the Decware several people on its fora sent theirs back in to have Steve attach a resistor at the "right" spot. I suppose if you wanted to bi-amp with the two watts on top if would have been fine.

Before the resistor was added the sound reminded me of my buddy's Lowthers. (The speaker that takes forever to break in.)

Basketball

Okay seriously now, I'll put on my electrical engineering cap for a moment. In today's world, it is not problematic to design an amp with flat frequency response, vanishingly small static and dynamic nonlinearities, high enough input impedance, low enough output impedance, noise levels below audibility and high enough channel separation. If these conditions are all met (and usually they are) then all amps will sound identical. No ifs, ands or buts.

There is no reason that your Decware is faster than other amps. In fact I would suggest that it may "sound" slower due to its high levels of distortion and low damping factor. If there is insufficient voltage and current drive capabilities, then all bets are off. This amp may sound different as a result.

You may have become - over the years - an unwitting pawn in the high end game's infatuation with hyperbole in an attempt to delude you. Sounds like they're winning.

Cheers, Shirl
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  98% Cack Free on Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:53 pm

You know the 2nd order harmonics are pleasing to the ear and that's what tube amps specialize in...so to speak. If you haven't heard the differences in amps you may having a hearing prob or an attention prob. I actually think you just like to fuss.

Guys on internet who claim to be EEs.

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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  Troglodyte on Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:58 pm

Choose your favorite distortion, then Laissez le bon temps roullez!
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  Shirl Girl on Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:28 am

98% Cack Free wrote:You know the 2nd order harmonics are pleasing to the ear and that's what tube amps specialize in...so to speak. If you haven't heard the differences in amps you may having a hearing prob or an attention prob. I actually think you just like to fuss.

Guys on internet who claim to be EEs.


In some experiments, some people chose 3rd order over 2nd order, some chose 2nd order over 3rd, and some didn't notice or care. I never said that I haven't heard differences in amps; I just said that if the electrical conditions that I listed were met, then there would be no differences. By extrapolation, if the conditions weren't met, then there could be differences. Understand? Read my post again.

I am in the electrical engineering Master's programme at the University of Toronto so no, I am not technically an EE just yet. I'm also a teacher's assistant for undergrads.
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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  zako on Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:43 am

IF IT MOVES IT DISTORTS,,,

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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

Post  Graham Peck on Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:21 pm

Girl, you look a lot like my last girlfriend. You ever go to Bangkok?


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Re: Audio Cheapskate as a way of life . . .

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